Discussion:
Mr Pounder - It beats the Shopvac Pro!
(too old to reply)
ah
2006-09-01 21:23:06 UTC
Permalink
No poofs in demon.local.
You go girl! Sounds like you have really dug in. Have
any of those old dogs left (or died)? I have to admit I sometimes
have to stop to think who you are talking about these days (can't say that
absence has made the heart grow fonder). Very interesting , at least that
will give you something to do for the rest of your
life. I can't imagine having to go back there - could you?
I have been brushing off the old resume. There is a opening or
two . I'm frankly overqualified, but it is
pretty much a 40 week job so I'm applying. . They are advertising eight
vacancies and there are three openings rts within a hour's drive of my
house. There is also one two hours from my house . Going to take a little
work to get my act together,
Yard--or car--work?
You mean garden.
No.
Yes. Yards are concrete.
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a residence,
public building or other structure.
--
ah
Peter Hucker
2006-09-03 12:01:29 UTC
Permalink
Yard--or car--work?
You mean garden.
No.
Yes. Yards are concrete.
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a residence,=
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.

-- =

http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http:=
//www.petersphotos.com

I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of=
confidence.
Chris Croughton
2006-09-03 13:06:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:29 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by ah
Yard--or car--work?
You mean garden.
No.
Yes. Yards are concrete.
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a residence,
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.
No, a yard is a measure of length equal to 3 feet or 91.44cm.

Or, from the Concise OED:

especially British: a piece of enclosed ground, especially attached to
a building or used for a particular purpose.

(Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 9th edition 1995).

Derived from Old English 'geard', 'region'.

(Note followups)

Chris C
Peter Hucker
2006-09-03 13:13:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:29 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
No.
Yes. Yards are concrete.
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a residenc=
e,
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Peter Hucker
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.
No, a yard is a measure of length equal to 3 feet or 91.44cm.
especially British: a piece of enclosed ground, especially attached =
to
Post by Chris Croughton
a building or used for a particular purpose.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 9th edition 1995).
Derived from Old English 'geard', 'region'.
But it's not how it's used in the UK now. The grassy area is your lawn.=
The concrete bit is your yard. The plants are the flowerbed. The who=
le thing is a garden.
Post by Chris Croughton
(Note followups)
(A few readded or I won't see the replies)


-- =

http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http:=
//www.petersphotos.com

All this "expressionism" in art, personally I think things ought to look=
like things. To me it's fairly easy to
tell what the artists are trying to say with their smears and swirls -- =
they're trying to say they can't paint worth a damn.
ah
2006-09-08 01:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:29 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by ah
No.
Yes. Yards are concrete.
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a residence,
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.
No, a yard is a measure of length equal to 3 feet or 91.44cm.
especially British: a piece of enclosed ground, especially attached to
a building or used for a particular purpose.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 9th edition 1995).
Derived from Old English 'geard', 'region'.
But it's not how it's used in the UK now. The grassy area is your lawn. The concrete bit is your yard. The plants are the flowerbed. The whole thing is a garden.
Post by Chris Croughton
(Note followups)
(A few readded or I won't see the replies)
Semantic transmorgrification does not a word become.
--
ah
Peter Hucker
2006-09-08 18:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by ah
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:29 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a reside=
nce,
Post by ah
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Peter Hucker
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.
No, a yard is a measure of length equal to 3 feet or 91.44cm.
especially British: a piece of enclosed ground, especially attache=
d to
Post by ah
Post by Chris Croughton
a building or used for a particular purpose.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 9th edition 1995).
Derived from Old English 'geard', 'region'.
But it's not how it's used in the UK now. The grassy area is your la=
wn. The concrete bit is your yard. The plants are the flowerbed. The =
whole thing is a garden.
Post by ah
Post by Chris Croughton
(Note followups)
(A few readded or I won't see the replies)
Semantic transmorgrification does not a word become.
I can't be bothered looking that up.

-- =

http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http:=
//www.petersphotos.com

The Vulcan Neck Pinch isn't half as powerful as the Vulcan Groin Kick, b=
ut it is more politically correct !
Bob Cunningham
2006-09-08 19:26:48 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 19:11:27 +0100, "Peter Hucker"
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by ah
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:29 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by ah
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a residence,
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.
No, a yard is a measure of length equal to 3 feet or 91.44cm.
especially British: a piece of enclosed ground, especially attached to
a building or used for a particular purpose.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 9th edition 1995).
Derived from Old English 'geard', 'region'.
But it's not how it's used in the UK now. The grassy
area is your lawn. The concrete bit is your yard.
The plants are the flowerbed. The whole thing is a
garden.
In fucked up American English the garden would be in the
yard, probably in the back yard rather than the front yard.
The front yard will have a lawn and maybe some flower beds
and some shrubs.

A garden can be either a flower garden or a vegetable
garden. It's a part of the yard that's devoted to growing
flowers or vegetables.
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by ah
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
(Note followups)
(A few readded or I won't see the replies)
Semantic transmorgrification does not a word become.
I can't be bothered looking that up.
By the way, how come "backyard" is one word and "front yard"
is two?
Chris Croughton
2006-09-09 17:19:42 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 19:26:48 GMT, Bob Cunningham
Post by Bob Cunningham
By the way, how come "backyard" is one word and "front yard"
is two?
Because the part 'kya' is easier to pronounce than 'ntya' (there's a
'stop' or small break between 'nt' and 'ya' when most people say it).
Although it is perfectly fine to write "back yard" still.

Actually, when words get combined with hyphens and when (if ever) the
hyphens get dropped is pretty random. Only 50 years ago it was still
common to see "to-day" and "to-morrow" in print, the hyphen died out,
but others have lasted for no apparent reason and some lost the hyphen
within a few years (no one now writes "micro-processor", for instance,
unless it needs to be hyphenated to break the line). The one which
annoys me is "noone" for "no one", it reads as "noon" with an erroneous
'e' on the end.

Chris C
Bob Cunningham
2006-09-09 21:28:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:19:42 +0100, Chris Croughton
<***@keristor.net> said:

[...]
The one which annoys me is "noone" for "no one", it
reads as "noon" with an erroneous 'e' on the end.
So far as I know, no dictionary condones spelling "no one"
closed.

A British dictionary, _The New Shorter Oxford_, recognizes
"no-one" as a less frequent spelling, but an American
dictionary, _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate_, doesn't mention
it.
Loki Harfagr
2006-09-10 18:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Cunningham
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:19:42 +0100, Chris Croughton
[...]
The one which annoys me is "noone" for "no one", it
reads as "noon" with an erroneous 'e' on the end.
So far as I know, no dictionary condones spelling "no one"
closed.
A British dictionary, _The New Shorter Oxford_, recognizes
"no-one" as a less frequent spelling, but an American
dictionary, _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate_, doesn't mention
it.
And, anyway, noone is second to none, especially at noon ;-)
Chris Croughton
2006-09-10 17:20:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 21:28:53 GMT, Bob Cunningham
Post by Bob Cunningham
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:19:42 +0100, Chris Croughton
[...]
The one which annoys me is "noone" for "no one", it
reads as "noon" with an erroneous 'e' on the end.
So far as I know, no dictionary condones spelling "no one"
closed.
Not yet, but it's becoming so common that there may well be pressure to
include it. Once newspapers take it up that's near the end, if the BBC
adopts it...
Post by Bob Cunningham
A British dictionary, _The New Shorter Oxford_, recognizes
"no-one" as a less frequent spelling, but an American
dictionary, _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate_, doesn't mention
it.
It's been used hyphenated in the UK for a long time, although that has
been considered "not correct" in some circles (like the "Oxford comma"
is's a matter of debate between those who do and those who don't like
it, with neither side giving way).

I don't recall at the moment whether the hyphenated form is in either of
the Concise Oxford dictionaries I have, and don't have them to hand,
next time I'm back home I'll check (as I recall Fowler mentioned it as
well).

Chris C
Bob Cunningham
2006-09-10 21:05:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:20:14 +0100, Chris Croughton
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 21:28:53 GMT, Bob Cunningham
Post by Bob Cunningham
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:19:42 +0100, Chris Croughton
[...]
The one which annoys me is "noone" for "no one", it
reads as "noon" with an erroneous 'e' on the end.
So far as I know, no dictionary condones spelling "no one"
closed.
Not yet, but it's becoming so common that there may well be pressure to
include it. Once newspapers take it up that's near the end, if the BBC
adopts it...
Yes, I'd like to think that there will be great resistance
to the spelling *"noone" because of the great temptation to
pronunce the "oo" as in "foolish", but the existence of
"cooperate" and "coordinate" demonstrates that that
restraint won't be enough.
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Bob Cunningham
A British dictionary, _The New Shorter Oxford_, recognizes
"no-one" as a less frequent spelling, but an American
dictionary, _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate_, doesn't mention
it.
It's been used hyphenated in the UK for a long time, although that has
been considered "not correct" in some circles (like the "Oxford comma"
is's a matter of debate between those who do and those who don't like
it, with neither side giving way).
I don't recall at the moment whether the hyphenated form is in either of
the Concise Oxford dictionaries I have, and don't have them to hand,
next time I'm back home I'll check (as I recall Fowler mentioned it as
well).
You may not be familiar with the various editions of the
_Shorter Oxford_. They're far superior to the _Concise
Oxford_s in both comprehensiveness and depth of definitions.

I have the _New Shorter Oxford_ (1993), both hard copy and
CD. There's a later edition of the _Shorter Oxford_ that I
don't have.
Post by Chris Croughton
Chris C
Bob Cunningham
2006-09-10 22:17:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:20:14 +0100, Chris Croughton
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 21:28:53 GMT, Bob Cunningham
[...]
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Bob Cunningham
A British dictionary, _The New Shorter Oxford_, recognizes
"no-one" as a less frequent spelling, but an American
dictionary, _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate_, doesn't mention
it.
It's been used hyphenated in the UK for a long time, although that has
been considered "not correct" in some circles (like the "Oxford comma"
is's a matter of debate between those who do and those who don't like
it, with neither side giving way).
I don't recall at the moment whether the hyphenated form is in either of
the Concise Oxford dictionaries I have, and don't have them to hand,
next time I'm back home I'll check (as I recall Fowler mentioned it as
well).
The term "Fowler" is used to refer to Henry Fowler's _A
Dictionary of Modern English Usage_ from the 1920s, to Sir
Ernest Gowers's' 1930s revision of that work, and rather
inappropriately to Burchfield's _The New Fowler's Modern
English Usage_ (1996).

In the 1920s work it says, discussing compounds of "one"
under "one 1"

The forms recommended are _anyone_, _everyone_,
_no-one_, _someone_.

The Gowers revision says under "one 2"

The forms recommended are _anyone_, _everyone_,
_no one_, _someone_.

So Gowers quietly disagreed with Henry Fowler and
recommended "no one" rather than "no-one".

Burchfield says

no one - no person, nobody. Thus spelt (no
hyphen).

_The Oxford Style Manual_ (copyright Oxford University Press
2003), the modern descendant of _Hart's Rules_ says in its
_Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors_

no one - no person (two words) but "nobody"

But _The Chambers Dictionary_ (1993) has

no one or no-one - nobody

For what it's worth, the _Concise Oxford 8th Edition_ (1990)
had "no one" with no mention of the hyphenated version. But
I understand there have been ninth, tenth, and eleventh
editions since then.

The online _Oxford English Dictionary_ has an entry for "no
one" and no entry for "no-one". However, under "no one"
there are a couple of quotations using the hyphen, with the
latest dated 1988. The earliest quotation for the
unhyphenated version is dated 1538; for the hyphenated,
1851.

A sort of diachronic look from the American point of view
can be had by looking in _Webster's New International
Dictionary_ in three editons (1909, 1930s, and 1960s):

The 1909 edition has no entry for "no-one" or "no one", but
in its definition of "nobody" it says in part "no one".

The 1930s (second) edition has the entry "no one" or
"no-one".

The 1960s (third) edition has an entry for "no one" with no
mention of "no-one".

Merriam-Webster's latest, the _11th Collegiate_ (2002) has
"no one" with no mention of "no-one".

My own feeling is that it's too bad "no-one" seems to have
fallen by the wayside. It could provide a useful
distinction between "no-one" meaning "nobody", and "no one"
meaning "not a single". (Compare "No-one is respondible"
and "No one person is responsible".)

But I'm glad "noone" appears to have no support from any
responsible authority.
ah
2006-09-13 23:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Croughton
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 19:26:48 GMT, Bob Cunningham
Post by Bob Cunningham
By the way, how come "backyard" is one word and "front yard"
is two?
Because the part 'kya' is easier to pronounce than 'ntya' (there's a
'stop' or small break between 'nt' and 'ya' when most people say it).
Although it is perfectly fine to write "back yard" still.
Actually, when words get combined with hyphens and when (if ever) the
hyphens get dropped is pretty random. Only 50 years ago it was still
common to see "to-day" and "to-morrow" in print, the hyphen died out,
but others have lasted for no apparent reason and some lost the hyphen
within a few years (no one now writes "micro-processor", for instance,
unless it needs to be hyphenated to break the line). The one which
annoys me is "noone" for "no one", it reads as "noon" with an erroneous
'e' on the end.
Neo-logists unite!
--
ah
Chris Croughton
2006-09-09 17:09:23 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 14:13:24 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:29 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by ah
No.
Yes. Yards are concrete.
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a residence,
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.
No, a yard is a measure of length equal to 3 feet or 91.44cm.
especially British: a piece of enclosed ground, especially attached to
a building or used for a particular purpose.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 9th edition 1995).
Derived from Old English 'geard', 'region'.
But it's not how it's used in the UK now. The grassy area is your
lawn. The concrete bit is your yard. The plants are the flowerbed.
The whole thing is a garden.
Only for some people, mostly the well-off in the southeast of England
(they have 'lawn' where ordinary people have "grass"). For a lot of
others the 'yard' means any enclosed area especially one used for
commercial purposes (a woodyard, for example). Some people reserve the
word 'garden' only for the flower or vegetable growing areas, some to
the whole area attached to a house, some use yard for the whole thing.
I have never, in the last 49 years, heard it used for a concreted part
of a garden, in my experience yard has been used either for the whole
area or not at all.

(When I was a kid we talked about the concrete, grass, the
'unpleasaunce' (the unmown bit which started half way down the garden),
flower beds and vegetable 'patch', and 'garden' was the whole thing. A
'yard' was, as I said first, a measure of length...)
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
(Note followups)
(A few readded or I won't see the replies)
'readded'? Oh, 're-added', the hyphen is needed when two vowels would
otherwise be adjacent...)

Chris C
Peter Hucker
2006-09-10 16:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 14:13:24 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:29 +0100, Peter Hucker
Post by Peter Hucker
No. A yard is an area that surrounds--or is adjacent to--a reside=
nce,
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Peter Hucker
public building or other structure.
Only in fucked up American English.
No, a yard is a measure of length equal to 3 feet or 91.44cm.
especially British: a piece of enclosed ground, especially attache=
d to
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
a building or used for a particular purpose.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 9th edition 1995).
Derived from Old English 'geard', 'region'.
But it's not how it's used in the UK now. The grassy area is your
lawn. The concrete bit is your yard. The plants are the flowerbed.
The whole thing is a garden.
Only for some people, mostly the well-off in the southeast of England
(they have 'lawn' where ordinary people have "grass"). For a lot of
others the 'yard' means any enclosed area especially one used for
commercial purposes (a woodyard, for example). Some people reserve th=
e
Post by Chris Croughton
word 'garden' only for the flower or vegetable growing areas, some to
the whole area attached to a house, some use yard for the whole thing.=
I have never, in the last 49 years, heard it used for a concreted part=
of a garden, in my experience yard has been used either for the whole
area or not at all.
(When I was a kid we talked about the concrete, grass, the
'unpleasaunce' (the unmown bit which started half way down the garden)=
,
Post by Chris Croughton
flower beds and vegetable 'patch', and 'garden' was the whole thing. =
A
Post by Chris Croughton
'yard' was, as I said first, a measure of length...)
Garden has always been the whole thing in the UK.
Post by Chris Croughton
Post by Peter Hucker
Post by Chris Croughton
(Note followups)
(A few readded or I won't see the replies)
'readded'? Oh, 're-added', the hyphen is needed when two vowels would=
otherwise be adjacent...)
Sorry, didn't realise you couldn't work it out for yourself.

I'llhavetostrtwritinglikethisjusttoconfuseyou.

And stop fucking about with the groups line. What's the point in trying=
to make me reply to a group I'm not subscribed to? Like getting the la=
st word in do you? Silly child.

-- =

http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http:=
//www.petersphotos.com

A weekend wasted is not a wasted weekend.
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